Join Matt Light and Gemma Waring as they explore how the UK Procurement Act is reshaping public sector procurement, what it means for bidders, and how organisations can prepare for the opportunities ahead.
More than a year after the UK Procurement Act came into force, what has changed for buyers, suppliers, and bid teams?
In this episode of the Optimize Podcast, Matt Light is joined by Gemma Waring, Director of G Waring Consulting, procurement consultant, trainer, and public sector tendering specialist, to explore how the Procurement Act is shaping public sector procurement in practice.
Drawing on her experience supporting both procurement teams and suppliers, Gemma shares her perspective on the implementation of the Act, the opportunities it creates for bidders, and the practical steps organisations can take to prepare for the future of public sector procurement.
00:00 – Introduction and welcome
01:20 – Gemma's career journey and experience across procurement and bidding
05:55 – First impressions of the Procurement Act and how expectations have evolved
10:20 – One year on: has the implementation delivered?
13:20 – How buyers and suppliers have adapted to the new legislation
18:00 – Are the reforms making public procurement more accessible for SMEs?
23:50 – Building better relationships between procurement and bidding teams
28:00 – What meaningful pre-market engagement looks like
31:20 – How suppliers can make the most of pre-market engagement
36:35 – Understanding the Competitive Flexible Procedure
41:10 – The new skills bid teams will need, from negotiation to commercial engagement
45:55 – What's next for the Procurement Act and public sector procurement?
53:50 – Quick-fire questions and Gemma's advice for bidders
✔ Build relationships with buyers before opportunities are released.
✔ Focus on meaningful pre-market engagement rather than simply attending supplier events.
✔ Develop negotiation and commercial skills alongside traditional bid writing expertise.
✔ Understand how your key customers are implementing the Procurement Act.
✔ Treat the Procurement Act as an opportunity to become more strategic, not just more compliant.
Gemma Waring is Director of G Waring Consulting, a procurement consultant, trainer and public sector tendering specialist. She works with both buyers and suppliers, helping organisations improve procurement, bidding and commercial performance through consultancy and training.
UK Procurement Act
National Procurement Policy Statement (NPPS)
Competitive Flexible Procedure
APMP UK Chapter
G Waring Consulting
VisibleThread
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Matt Light (00:00)
Hi everyone, welcome to the Optimise podcast brought to you by Visible Thread. This is series five. I'm Matt Light. And today we're gonna be talking all about the UK Procurement Act. And what better person could we have to talk about that with us today? It's the director of GWARING Consulting, fantastic background in public sector procurement and bidding, having worked at Millstream Practice.
a qualified trainer in this area and an all-round public sector tendering expert. It's Gemma Waring. Hi Gemma, how are you?
Gemma Waring (00:38)
Hi Matt, I'm really good. Thank you very much for that lovely introduction.
Matt Light (00:42)
They're very warranted, very warranted. Thanks for being with us. Really looking forward to this discussion today. I think by the time this podcast goes out, we're probably gonna have stopped talking about the Procurement Act being one year on by that point, because it's probably gonna be about 18 months. But I'm really looking forward to getting your insights and views here on.
where we are in the UK with the Act and what the opportunities are with it going forward.
Gemma Waring (01:15)
Yeah.
Matt Light (01:16)
And just before we get into that, just as a bit of a scene setter, mentioned there that you've got a really strong background in account management, consultancy, qualified trainer. So you bring all of that into your current work and your bid consultancy and procurement consultancy.
How did all of those previous roles and the skills that you picked up within those shape your approach to bidding and procurement as it is today?
Gemma Waring (01:51)
⁓ wow, that's I think I think it's quite interesting because i ⁓ y ⁓ like many people it wasn't a chosen career path. ⁓ didn't know what it was until I stumbled across it. And I think that if you go right back to to the roots of of what I've done throughout my career, my first ever role was a graduate buyer but in a retail environment.
Matt Light (01:59)
He
Gemma Waring (02:11)
and I actually was very fortunate the department it was a d department store and I was responsible for purchasing toys, suites and luxury gifts. So yeah. It was a pr pretty dream job for somebody straight out of university. So I pretty much was in the buyer's role. So I had salespeople coming in, I got to play with toys, I got to try sweets. So I saw sales from that side. So being the buyer, instantly kind of knowing what put me off.
Matt Light (02:20)
Nice.
Gemma Waring (02:38)
when people were trying to sell to me, is probably more important than than the the sort of positive side. And then i over time I went into sales management, which was then the other side of the table, but very much in a business to business environment. ⁓ I was fortunate I it was at a a football club when they were playing in the Premier League, so it was a very sort of glamorous job. it was it was a lot of fun to do that, but it was very hard line business to business sales.
⁓ it was back in the days before GDPR, so it was here's a here's a phone book, start calling people. ⁓ you know, it was one of the very hundred calls a day, you know, that sort of thing. So again, just learning how to get people on side I think, you know, w understanding how to get people to want to speak to you. ⁓ and I know that when we're looking at the Procurement Act we'll talk about pre-market engagement and and the new impact that that has.
Matt Light (03:12)
All right.
Gemma Waring (03:32)
And I think that that was something I learnt very quickly in that role was how to engage people and how to give them a a reason to want to speak to me rather than just pushing a sales message and I think that that has really helped. But then just sort of I've always been a a fan of long term career development and continual learning, you know, just even if it's not work related, I'm currently doing a a little history course on the side.
when I get a spare minute 'cause I just like learning stuff, I always have. but then learning how to train effectively. I've also got a coaching qualification, ⁓ and just really getting underneath the the the sort of skin of what keeps people engaged, you know, what what motivates them, w and and it's that change of focus for me that that I've brought to it is it's less about what I'm trying to achieve and more about how I can get people to come with me.
Matt Light (03:58)
Nice.
Gemma Waring (04:23)
on that journey and and get what I need at the end of it, rather than sort of practical management of things, if that makes sense. More about people management than practical project management. I think I would say all my combined expertise has has has got me to the point of understanding.
Matt Light (04:41)
Nice and yeah I see that as a natural journey actually that a lot of big people go through that maybe struggle to adapt to so I can see what how the the skills and previous roles that you've had have definitely helped with that so you're in a I you're in a nice sweet spot there in terms of ⁓ yeah the the expertise and experience that you've got. So
Look, let's dive straight into that then, because I want to talk about the Procurement Act with you, as we've said. You've been really sort of heavily involved in understanding the Act and its impact in the UK, know, pretty much ever since it was first announced by the UK government, well, back three, four years ago.
Gemma Waring (05:12)
Yeah.
Matt Light (05:34)
If I can take you back to that time when those first announcements and consultations started to come out, what was your first impression about the whole thing? How did it land with you? And how have those impressions changed over time?
Gemma Waring (05:53)
⁓ I think it's it's important to kind of think back that, you know, w when the white paper and the green paper were w were out when it was just sort of in its very early legislative days, y we we were in a very unique period of time. You know, we had the pandemic, we had lockdown, you know, there was lots of stuff going on at that time and and I think society has changed a huge amount in that period as well, you know, sort of politically and and civilly. So
if if we think back to then ⁓ and and what was happening and I think as well there were quite a few notable I would say cases of procurement not being done amazingly well front by the public sector. And I think that when the first sort of drafts of it, the ideas of it started to come out, I had two things that stood out for me originally was I thought
Is this just trying to deregulate procurement? you know, it seemed like a lot of the stuff that they were talking about was about more flexibility, more commerciality, ⁓ less red tape. ⁓ and and I thought, is this a a move towards deregulation? again, the sort of political era at the time was very much around, you know, just getting on with things and, you know, maybe not following political processes as as strictly as some other
governments have done. So it seemed that was kind of my initial reaction. And I think like a lot of people I was also very surprised about the lack of mention around social value, sustainability, innovation. there was even ⁓ I remember a a a not a protest, a petition that that was signed to say why aren't you sort of doing this? Now those things have
changed quite dramatically from those initial impressions because obviously to get through the legislative process and to get you know i it it wasn't an easy process. It goes through the House of Lords, it goes through the House of Commons, it gets amendments, the amendments have to be agreed. It was it was a whole process. So a a lot of the stuff that initially looked quite sizeable in terms of change were sort of metered down by needing to
be signed off by everybody. So things like yeah, the the competitive flexible procedure still has certain rules and and and parameters around it. The approach to directly awarding contracts didn't really change that much. That was a bit of a concern at at first. And again then we've had the invent of the national procurement policy statement, ⁓ which as as a as a sort of I I really agree with the approach that they that they've brought in there. So
Matt Light (08:01)
Yeah.
Gemma Waring (08:24)
you know, stop me if I'm going too much off on a on a segue, but but what they basically have done is rather than hard baking social value and sustainability requirements into the legislation, they've created the policy statement which is ancillary to that. th the the the actual legislation itself just says that authorities must have regard to it, but the actual policy itself can change over time.
So it means that government can then keep more up to date with changes in the social value and sustainability arena rather than having it wedded in a document that then has to go through a huge legislative process every time you want to change and update it. So I actually think that the the way that they've managed that is is really good.
Matt Light (09:08)
Yeah, like you say, that flexibility seems to be a positive, doesn't it? In how it's kind of coming through at the moment. So we all know that there were a lot of discussions about it, lot of consultation in typical UK fashion. It took its time to get there and get implemented. As I said, we are that.
Gemma Waring (09:14)
Yeah.
Matt Light (09:35)
beyond 12 months on now, probably sort of more 18 months by the time people are listening to this. So without dwelling on the time scale too much, do you think the implementation of the Act now has matched that initial ambition that was had during the consultation period for what it aimed to do?
Gemma Waring (09:59)
⁓ I I think so. certainly 'cause 'cause my experience now is that I also manage and support procurement customers. So I for the last sort of six years have done both sides of the table. So got quite a unique perspective into you know, behind the scenes, all behind the the smoke and mirrors of of what's going on. And I I think that in terms of the practical changes, what you usually will have in an authority is that you will have some very
dedicated and knowledgeable procurement officers or you know, w whatever their old title is. And in terms of them understanding the changes, knowing what they need to do, updating their documents and processes to reflect the new rules, I think the vast majority of customers I speak to are fine with that. the bigger challenge of the rollout is the cultural changes that that are attached
To some of the changes in in the Act for authorities. So things like pre-market engagement and that adding to the procurement timeline and then thinking about how that will be managed and who will do it. And quite a big challenge is also the other side of it, which is the the the enhanced scrutiny of the contract management. So it's almost like the bookends either side of the procurement because you can run a compliant procurement.
⁓ and then it gets handed over to operational colleagues to manage the contract and they're now having to understand that you know this is now a public ⁓ procurement act contract I've now got to do this if I want to make any modifications to it. It's a different set of steps to go through than if it was pre-procurement act and and those operational colleagues aren't procurement experts you know and they're experts in getting the job done so
Matt Light (11:39)
.
Gemma Waring (11:41)
That ⁓ I've done a lot of work contract management training as well within authorities to support them, to to be able to come with the procurement teams on the journey.
Matt Light (11:52)
That's really good. I think sometimes it's easy for us in the bidding roles to forget the impact that this is going to have had on procurement teams. And I know sometimes we do like to a bit of a moan and sometimes it's rightly placed. But I think we do perhaps need to have more of an acknowledgement and understanding of what our procurement colleagues on the other side of the fence are going through. So that's a really good call out.
Gemma Waring (12:22)
Yeah.
Matt Light (12:24)
Excellent. So we're going to dive a little bit deeper now and we're going to focus really on kind of three key areas. We're going to talk a little bit more about the similarities and differences in how the acts landed between buyers and sellers and suppliers. We're going to talk about
Gemma Waring (12:44)
Uh-huh.
Matt Light (12:47)
some of the things that you've already mentioned and maybe kind of deep dive into some of the market engagement piece and competitive flexible procedure as well and then round off with getting just some more of your wonderful insights and practical advice for bidders. So you've already alluded to it there Gemma in terms of the work that you've done with procurement teams around understanding and
Gemma Waring (12:58)
Yeah.
Matt Light (13:17)
implementing the Act. Obviously you've done that work with bidding teams as well. Who, not to put you on the spot, who would you say has had the steeper learning curve in understanding and implementing the Act so far?
Gemma Waring (13:22)
Mm-hmm.
Ooh, ⁓
I would say that it's sort of gone in two waves. So I think initially it was the procurement teams because they had to understand it all in depth. They obviously have ⁓ you know the legal concerns about getting things wrong and you know making sure everything's right, updating documents, training, all of that sort of stuff that I that I've mentioned. but then
And and and in the early days, ⁓ because obviously the act is as you know, it it was supposed to come in ⁓ a long time before it did, and then we had the change in government which delayed it. So this has been a couple of years of of progress towards the the point we're at now. And what I was initially hearing from a lot of suppliers was, we'll just deal with it when it happens. You know, there was almost this kind of like, we just have to do whatever they tell us to do in the bid. so we'll just do it.
I work with customers from on the bidding side, you know, I've got sort of blue chip customers, I've got sort of pe you know, still sole owned, ⁓ sort of SME type of businesses as well, you know, so I work across the board. and I think that that after the initial wave of procurement teams understanding it, as we've started to see the the tenders and and the changes hitting the marketplace, then suppliers have have had to sort of
Do a little bit of catch-up, but I don't think as in depth because we we don't as on the supplier side we don't need to know the ins and outs of we assume the the procurement teams have done the rules and the the everything. We just look at what we get and say, okay, well we'll just follow the steps then and complete the the bid or go through the process they've outlined. I I think that on the supplier side, one of the big challenges that I've had to help quite a lot of my customers with is the new approach to the selection stage.
Matt Light (15:03)
Yeah.
Gemma Waring (15:22)
⁓ and the supplier registration and then I've seen all different varieties of how buyers have put tenders out now with that new selection stage and what I'm sure you have as well, Martin the ones that you've seen ⁓ and and anybody listening will as well. So and again that kind of shows that although I I I do think the public sector are largely in the right place when it comes to implementing this, because
Matt Light (15:31)
Yeah.
Gemma Waring (15:47)
i it's such a fragmented space, you know, there is no single entity in the public sector, you know, e everyone operates sort of independently. there is a a a a h a gulf between people that are a hundred percent got it and everything's right and then you've got people that are still playing catch-up and you also see people changing roles as well. You know, so you've got procurement teams where somebody's left in the last year, somebody's come in, they're having to learn it also
Matt Light (16:07)
All right.
Gemma Waring (16:13)
You have all that going on, so th there is a huge variety, but definitely that selection stage and and the new approach to it I think has has thrown and and confused quite a a lot of people. and I've said for quite a while from the beginning that I do and do continue and and have always been worried that it would be a barrier to entry, for a lot of smaller suppliers 'cause it's taken something that was admin heavy but
simple and turned it into something that is maybe one step too far for people that want to get involved in bidding but can't face the the rigmarole of it all. So I I worry about the impact on on newer or smaller suppliers.
Matt Light (16:45)
Yeah.
Yeah, the piece on small and medium suppliers is quite interesting, Gemma, isn't it? Because one of the big provisions in the Act was essentially meant to make it easier for SMEs to bid and actually be able to bid better. So you've alluded to it a little bit there. Just give us a little bit more of a flavour on that. Have you actually seen that?
Gemma Waring (16:58)
Yeah.
Matt Light (17:15)
happening? Do you see more SMEs now actually being active because of the new regs or are there still challenges to that?
Gemma Waring (17:26)
Th there are still challenges to that and you know i in all fair to to be fair to both sides, you know, I can see it's such a big challenge. You know, i i even from w from when the the you know, PCR fifteen that came in to try and support more SMEs to get involved in public procurement. ⁓ you know, we've had targets, spending targets in place before, as well, you know, and and I sort of ⁓ you know
I I haven't seen a it make a huge impact yet, in terms of, you know, we've made it easier for for SMEs, but hopefully over time, 'cause you know, things like the national procurement policy statement talks about supply chain diversity, you know, there's more insistence on and ⁓ future publication on thirty day payment terms and and things like that and and pushing on to to larger suppliers, ⁓
the requirement, you know, for their supply chains to be run in the same way. So I am I am hopeful as ever. and I know that part of the with the release of the the ⁓ NPPS there was the the the new PPNs came out and they gave some mandatory requirements for central authorities. and what I think would be useful is to get a bit more clarity
at a lower level. So there was the secondary consultation that was run last year, which was trying to fix this problem essentially. It was asking the marketplace to to you know consult with government and explain what what they think w would benefit. And you know, looking at the results of that, it it's all the same stuff that we've been talking about for years. You know, it's it's you know enhanced social value through procurement, it's supporting SMEs.
Matt Light (19:07)
Yeah.
Gemma Waring (19:08)
And I just think it's such a huge challenge that it's something that we'll just have to chip keep chipping away at and keep on the agenda. I don't think there's a magic bullet that we'll suddenly get I call them can't bid won't bids. so I get a lot I get a lot of customers that come up to me and they're just like, We want to bid on this opportunity, we've got no idea what we're doing, we don't want to learn about it, just fix it for us, you know. That that that's some of the some of the the work that I get.
But then hopefully they see the value in it 'cause I always try and say, well, if you're an SME, you've got a customer there that's a long term contract, it's thirty day payment terms. you know, it can be the lifeblood of your business to get a couple of of solid contracts in that will help you then to trade and grow. but yeah, I I haven't seen a a major uplift in in my experience. And as I said, I think that if anything that
Matt Light (19:45)
.
Gemma Waring (19:57)
New selection stages made things a little bit more confusing. yeah.
Matt Light (20:01)
Yeah,
yeah it's interesting, because I'm in an SME currently and I think one of the, it has made it
slightly easier to bid from my perspective and I guess I'm lucky with the experience I've got but one of the big things that it's impacted on in our organisation is the operational side of things and I would imagine it's the same for others. You you've now got to think about, I might need an ISO certification or I might need a cyber essential certification which maybe is an SME in the past you may
not have realistically needed to think about. So yeah, it's like you say, definitely positives, but challenges as well, I think from what we're seeing.
Gemma Waring (20:44)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. And and I think that there are some provisions in the Act, you know, for example, in the competitive flexible procedure, it does specifically state that if justified suppliers could be treated differently, you know, as long as it doesn't give them an unfair advantage or disadvantage, which is very difficult to to try and think how you would manage that practically. But you know, this th there are measures in there, you know, w a and again with the pre engagement it talks about building capacity ⁓ in in the supply chain as part of the pre market engagement. So
Matt Light (21:08)
Yeah.
Gemma Waring (21:21)
So there are tools in there to to try and support buyers to to do more work in that area. But and you know, things like allowing equivalencies or you know, recognising that that you know the difference, say for a say if you were a a social enterprise, you know, and and you were going to compete against a private sector large company or or something, you know, try trying to recognise that difference. But culturally, I just think a lot of the public sector is so risk averse that
Things like that are great and and they they sound great and they make a big splash in terms of look at the changes. But practically are procurement teams going to run a competition and treat people differently? Probably not. So yeah, just yeah.
Matt Light (22:02)
Yeah, there's
a whole can of worms there, isn't there? We don't think we want to open.
Gemma Waring (22:07)
Definitely, yeah.
Matt Light (22:12)
So just last one on this piece Gemma, we talked already about perhaps some of the tensions in the past that might have existed between procurement teams and bidding teams. Do you think that the provisions of the Act have maybe helped improve
bidding's understanding of procurement and procurement's understanding of bidding? Or do you think maybe we're not quite there yet? And what would be your reason for where you land on that?
Gemma Waring (22:48)
Yeah, I I think that the the new measures around the pre market engagement are designed for that. so for the first time ever, section sixteen of the act for people that want to look it up, but it very explicitly states in there that what buyers are allowed to engage the market and and experts about, you know, and it is so broad, it's it even says writing the tender documents, designing the award criteria.
⁓ you know, it it's got a list of things that you're allowed to engage with with buyers about and and that again is to try and make it more attractive for buyers because there's always been that push pull of of you know wanting to wanting to engage but then being scared of challenge from the buyer side.
And then from the supplier side you you want to engage but you don't want to give away everything because you don't want to see it in the bid and you know, it's it's always just again one of those sort of ⁓ it's like a game of poker, isn't it? It's everyone's, you know, playing the same game but i from very wary ⁓ positions. But the act is again trying to make sure that we go ⁓ that the procurement teams go to market with something that is fit for purpose.
⁓ you know, it it it's and and that's what I do applaud it for is that it it's saying don't just run a compliant procurement, actually get the contract at the end of it that is useful and provides value and you know is is is good. and I've seen a lot of examples of it. ⁓ you know, there were a huge amount of ⁓ you know, if you looked on the find attender platform now the pre-market engagement notices are there, in in the
thousands probably now. You've got the preliminary you've got preliminary market engagement, you've got the planned procurement notices as well are there. You've also got the pipeline notices coming out as well from authorities that have given you advanced notice. So all of that is is you know an encouragement to to start that engagement early to help break down those walls. But again I think the same as we said with the SMEs, it's it that's always been a challenge. ⁓
Matt Light (24:51)
Yeah.
Gemma Waring (24:52)
in
procurement. and and and I think that again, you know, I know that you've worked for a lot of different types of organisations, Matt, and it depends on the skill set and the capacity of the organisation. my first real bidding job was for ⁓ read in partnership ⁓ and I was doing sort of the bigger welfare to work contract bids and they were huge. They like three month endeavours with like forty team members and stuff. and
Matt Light (25:13)
Yeah.
Gemma Waring (25:20)
there were people there, you know, we had the resources. There would people had been out, they'd been talking to people before it came out and and but then you look at sort of a a smaller local training provider who also wants to bid on that and and would provide that value. They don't necessarily have the time, the resources, the the the understanding to go out and do that. So I think that it's great having those measures in place and I think they're a great benefit to people who know the game and know how to play it.
Matt Light (25:39)
Yeah.
Gemma Waring (25:47)
But I think that it's how do you spread that message a bit further then? How do you get that message out so that newer organisations can see that and do that meaningful engagement to help try and diversify the supply chain a bit more?
Matt Light (26:01)
Yeah, it's one of the really big changes in the act, it, Jim, the pre-market engagement piece. And you've talked about perhaps a lot of the sort of theory behind it there. Could you, maybe without naming names, have you got any sort of specific examples of
actually where you've seen the pre-market engagement done really well. And if so, what does that look like? And are there any sort of insights in there that for procurement people listening, you would say that's something that they could mirror in their own pre-market engagement situations.
Gemma Waring (26:47)
Yeah.
I think the the biggest thing for me, and I always talk about this, a fly the flag for suppliers when I do my procurement training, is for the pre-engagement to be meaningful. Cause 'cause potentially the issue with 'cause cause under the new rules, any above threshold contract should really be doing pre-market engagement. And before it goes out with the tender notice to start the tendering competition, they should have published a a PME notice to say
what engagement has taken place. Now the only challenge with that is if it just becomes a tick box exercise. you know, you just we'll run a half hour webinar where we just basically tell you everything you're gonna read in the procurement documents and we've already decided everything is not pre-market engagement, although a lot of people think it is. so a really good example that I that I saw I was helping a customer bid for a framework
to provide ⁓ care services. So they it was sort of ad ho ad hoc placements for people with complex needs, yeah, young people with complex needs. so very, you know, very detailed, you know, really important in terms of getting it right, 'cause obviously that it's affecting vulnerable people at the end of the exchange. And what the authority did is they initially engaged ⁓
They said this is our proposed approach, the this is the lotting structure, these this is the fee structure, this is how we imagine it will all work from a sort of end-to-end operational hand over, hand back. and then they followed that up with a very targeted set of questions ⁓ that suppliers could respond to anonymously. ⁓
Matt Light (28:19)
Bye.
Gemma Waring (28:20)
And they then ran a secondary engagement webinar to say, right, now we've collated all your feedback, we want you to know that specifically we've changed A, B, and C. So they were able to show that they had listened, they'd evaluated the feedback they'd got and they changed the lotting structure and then they changed some of the ancillary services that the that they put in as mandatory because not everyone could offer them and it would exclude people and so they they did so that to me is is what pre-market engagement is. ⁓
Matt Light (28:48)
Okay.
Gemma Waring (28:49)
And yeah, and and whereas like I said, a lot of people unfortunately still think it's just, you know, half hour webinar. This is what we're doing anyway. Bits out next week, see you later.
Matt Light (28:56)
Yeah
Yeah, and without naming names, it's surprising how many of the, shall we say, larger procurement organisations still take that view. So is there anything that we can do from a bidding side, Gemma, to help procurement teams with pre-market engagement? Is there anything that might...
Gemma Waring (29:10)
Yes, definitely.
Matt Light (29:28)
that we can do that might help ease the process for them a little.
Gemma Waring (29:33)
Yeah. I think I'm I'm very wary about talking on behalf of all procurement. You know, I'm I'm sort of looking at my experience and and what I've seen and what I know and and also what I know from being a s a supplier on the other side. and for me the the thing with pre-market engagement if you want to do more than just turn up and show your face at one of these sort of staged events, ⁓ which again, you know, there's there's measure in that, you know, sort of getting getting to know people, sort of them seeing your name and your interest.
Is that in my experience, generally procurement teams do not have the time or the resources to engage with you just for the love of it. you know, th i if if you know, they they and and that's not because they don't care, it's because they are usually overstretched, under resourced, firefighting themselves, you know, like i it's it's really uncanny when you actually look at the two different working cultures between bidding and
Matt Light (30:10)
Right.
Gemma Waring (30:27)
procurement and how similar they actually are. you've got you've got something that's like a routine process that should be easy to follow, but you've got so many stakeholders involved and time pressures and that it it's very, very similar working cultures on both sides. And also on the procurement side, people fall into it in the same way we fall into to bidding. You know, there isn't sort of a a career day usually for join public sector procurement, you know, same way you don't really get
Matt Light (30:52)
Hahaha.
Gemma Waring (30:53)
ones for bidding, although I would I would love for there to be more bidding focused ones but i it it b basically I've kinda lost the thread of what I was saying there. What was the what was the original question? My ADHD brain
Matt Light (31:02)
No, you're all right. It was about what, now you're okay. It was about
what bidders can do to help pre-market engagement be successful. I think you're right.
Gemma Waring (31:14)
okay. Sorry. so
so ⁓ for me I think that because procurement teams are so overstretched and don't have the time that they and a lot of them wish they had that time. You know, a lot of them say, I wish I could do this and I g I I they get frustrated when they end up with the same contractor because, you know, they haven't had time to to do what they want to do and and all the best practice. And and for me it's always about
Giving them a reason to talk to you, this kind of comes back to maybe my earlier skills of making a hundred phone calls and trying to get someone on the hook and you know, i i if you if they think you can offer them something that is different to what they already know, or enhances, or maybe is something they might miss out on sometimes when I'm training on this, I call it like the the FOMO point.
Matt Light (31:46)
Yeah.
Right.
Gemma Waring (32:03)
you know, th i th then they might go, well I'll speak to them. You know, 'cause if you're just saying, I just I'm I'm bidding on this next month and I just wanted to call you and have a chat with you about it, they don't have time for that. But if you said, we've got a new approach to this or we've got a new product or we've just patented a new technology that that will do X, Y, and Z, then suddenly they might go, Okay. an example of this was when I was working, ⁓
Back for Millstream before it was bought out by Proactis. They run Public Contracts Scotland and sell to Wales. And another national portal was up for tender, and we wanted to go for it. And I tried and tried and tried to get to speak to the procurement team, no interest. And this was way back in time when the last legislation came out, and people were talking about a single European selection stage.
And we developed the module which is now being used in Public Contract Scotland to manage the selection stage. And I sent an email and I said, ⁓ I know you've you're really busy, but I just wanted to let you know that we've developed this module, it's ready to go, and I just wanted to give you a demo of it because I'm sure you'd want that included in your new platform to future proof it. And then suddenly I had a meeting. ⁓ so so so that's what I would say to people is is when you're thinking about pre-engagement.
Matt Light (33:13)
Ha ha.
Gemma Waring (33:18)
Yes, there is the personal aspect of it, but practically if you want to use it to stand out, to get a one to one, to, you know, really push your your name and your brand forward, ⁓ try and think about something like that. You know, why why speak to you? It's not they're not just gonna do it to say hi, they're they'll do it if they think that you can offer them something.
Matt Light (33:40)
That's brilliant insight, Gemma, thank you. And I always knew that I really liked the Scotland portal as well, by the way.
Gemma Waring (33:47)
Yes. It
would be good to have an English one. It was as easy.
Matt Light (33:50)
certainly would.
So one of the other areas that you've already talked a little bit about so far is the competitive flexible procedure. This is another really big change and actually quite a talked about one as well. For those of us who may not have encountered it yet or ⁓ seen a procurement that uses it, myself included, can you guide us through what
Gemma Waring (34:06)
Mm-hmm.
Matt Light (34:17)
What does competitive flexible procedure really mean? And what are the opportunities there? Why would buyers use it? And why is it so good for them and bidders?
Gemma Waring (34:23)
Yeah.
Yeah. So under the new Procurement Act there are only two competitive ⁓ procedure choices. So most people ⁓ are used to the open or restricted procedure. there were also other ones, competitive dialogue and negotiated procedures. ⁓ but what the act has essentially done is it's cut that down to two. So you've got the open procedure, which is just as it was, single stage, you get asked all your selection plus your ITT and your pricing information.
all at once you respond all in one go. The only caveat over that is that what a lot of buyers used to do is they would do that but then maybe do a presentation or enhance due diligence. Under the act strictly they're not allowed to do that. I know a lot of authorities are still doing that and calling it an open procedure but they're not meant to because it's just supposed to be a a a very quick everything all in one go, nothing additional. So
Matt Light (35:18)
Yeah.
Gemma Waring (35:25)
That then means that because we've lost all of these other procedure options that we used to have, everything else is now bundled into the competitive flexible procedure. And essentially that means that the buyer, the procurement team can design whatever procurement procedure they think is suitable to get the results that they need in that procurement. So that could include negotiations, dialogue.
Matt Light (35:35)
Okay.
Gemma Waring (35:50)
rounds of tendering. interestingly for the public sector that can also include pricing negotiations. and they're allowed to include a BAFO stage, best and final offer stage for people that aren't used to dealing with that. And that for me is where there's that crossover between organisations that bid on both public and private sector will probably have an a an advantage here because that's private sector skill base. ⁓
Matt Light (36:14)
and
Gemma Waring (36:15)
Coming over into the public sector. And th the reason that that's happened is because what the Act has also done is we used to have separate legislation for utilities, defence, concessions. It's all come together under one remit now. And what has essentially happened is the sort of tools and abilities that private utilities say used to have, which was all of that stuff anyway.
Has now had to be opened up to the wider public sector. So a private utilities company has always been able to, you know, do negotiations, do Bafo stages, things like that. It's now open to the wider public sector. there are certain caveats around it. ⁓ the buyers still have to have regard to the NPPS. ⁓ they have to make sure that they haven't designed the procedure in a way that is restrictive or, you know, is is
produces barriers for SMEs. and it it it's it was a such a big splash item w when when the act first came out and everyone was super like, whoa, what what is this? You know, it's and that's that deregulation theme. It was kind of just saying, you know, d do what you like. But it it it in practice it's not been quite as spectacularly groundbreaking as it might have been, although there are some
Matt Light (37:13)
Yeah.
Gemma Waring (37:30)
good examples of of good practice coming out now, which is is good to see, but it hasn't created a whole scale change as of yet.
Matt Light (37:40)
Now interesting, okay. So it sounds like then bid teams have got a bit of an opportunity to, know, gen themselves up on this if their buyers that they are used to working with might use this procedure going forward. And you mentioned they're bringing a little bit of sort the
Gemma Waring (37:51)
Uh-huh.
Matt Light (38:03)
private sector bidding approach into public sector. So what's your view? If you're in a bid team and you were looking at a contract using competitive flexible procedure in the future, what could we be doing now and what would we need to or how would we need to adapt our processes to be successful in a competitive flexible procedure process?
Gemma Waring (38:28)
Yeah. I think the number one thing for me is negotiation training. I think that that there is actually, I believe, ⁓ a significant investment going into that on the public sector side because I think that's that's really the turnkey is is when you get public sector bodies being more confident delivering n you know, negotiation sessions because again they're the same as us, you know, a lot of them it's just been a paper based exchange and
Matt Light (38:39)
Okay.
Gemma Waring (38:54)
You know, it is it's such a huge change. You know, you've gone from the sort of almost blind auction of put your price in and we'll score it, to now we're talking about negotiations and and I think that understanding cult sort of culturally what that means as well in terms of a and I tell procurement teams to be wary of this, is obviously if you put in a best and final offer stage into your competitive flexible procedure.
Matt Light (39:01)
Yeah
Gemma Waring (39:20)
How's that going affect the initial pricing you get? Because people will leave room to do the negotiations, and are you adding a stage there where you will end up where you would have been anyway? It's it's all of that that that really needs to be considered. but definitely I think negotiation ⁓ and and also maybe just sort of just general dialogue and presentation sort of skills because I think that if you think about your team structure and and the skill base of it.
Matt Light (39:24)
Yeah.
Gemma Waring (39:45)
If we are doing more pre market engagement, who's best seated to do that? You know, is it an outbound sales team? Is it at director level? Is it somebody on the bid team? you know, w I'm sure you've worked with lots of people ⁓ as I have, Matt, who are the most amazing bid writers, but they sit in the corner with their headphones on and you know, the the the most wonderful ⁓ and I probably class myself as this quirky individuals.
Matt Light (40:05)
you
Yeah,
Gemma Waring (40:11)
yeah but
Matt Light (40:11)
me too.
Gemma Waring (40:13)
are they the people that you want to go and do pre market engagement? ⁓ are they the people that you want to s to sit in a negotiation or would feel comfortable doing that? So I think that it's a really good time now, while the the the the the the buying side seem to be preparing themselves for it to really assess your team and if you do have the ability to do any sort of skills development or training, thinking about negotiation.
business to business sort of more more that type of selling ⁓ and in terms of the dialogue and the conversations you'd need to have because what you also want to do is use those opportunities to direct traffic. So ⁓ as I said the act says you can pre engage to set conditions of participation to design the procedure to set the award criteria. So what you don't want to do is waste an opportunity where you have managed to get pre engagement with the buyer and then not influence any of that stuff.
for for for the actual tender itself. And it's tot totally different skills I think than than maybe what we've got used to. and with virtual working as well, you know, we're used to doing more stuff remotely and and that kind of, you know, face to face negotiation round a table isn't something that a lot of people would feel desperately comfortable with, I would imagine. so yeah, I think now's the time to to to plan ahead for that.
Matt Light (41:26)
.
I really hope that, well, I hope that people listening hear everything, but I really hope people hear that Gemma, because we talk a lot in the profession at the minute about how do we elevate ourselves and how do we become more strategic. I think everything that you've said there feeds exactly into that. And, you know, the procurement act piece, if people can actually use that as the lever to get themselves access to
Gemma Waring (41:54)
Yeah.
Matt Light (42:02)
more of these skills and the ability to train themselves in that. I think that's a really, really strong piece of advice. So thank you for sharing that. So look, let's round off by talking a little bit about future states. I mean, here we are midway through 2026. If you and I were to come back and have a chat more towards the end of 2027,
Gemma Waring (42:10)
Yeah.
Matt Light (42:30)
Where do you think we'd find ourselves with public sector procurement? How do you see things evolving with the Act and with procurement in general over the next 12 to 18 months?
Gemma Waring (42:44)
⁓ th there's a few different things on the horizon. so I mentioned the consultation earlier on, ⁓ and there hasn't been although the sort of responses have been published, there hasn't been a plan put in place yet or any specific you know, objectives or requirements. But that is trying to look at taking the
social value model which was released with the National Procurement Policy Statement. At the minute that's only ⁓ s a requirement for central authorities like your department of your department for the government commercial agency to follow. And what they're trying to do is is embed something at a more local level that makes social value and sustainability easier ⁓ to manage. So just for people that that aren't aware, the social value model basically
has aligned eight specific asks to government policy and buyers in central authority roles have to do 10% minimum of the evaluation to social value and they have to select one or more of these eight specific tasks and they're things like around jobs, ⁓ you know, reducing crime, that things like that. If you if you just search for procurement social value model you'll you'll be able to find it.
And what they want to try and do is is bring that down to a local level, which is obviously horrendously difficult. I don't envy anybody that's got the the task of doing that. But again, it's trying to say rather than every authority asking for something different, everyone singing on off the same hymn sheet and and the model even then says what good looks like, it says how it should be ⁓ evaluated and it says how it should be measured contractually as well. so I
Matt Light (44:03)
Hahaha.
Gemma Waring (44:24)
I think that because the consultation, I think that came out in March, so it's been a few months since well coming up to a few months since that's come out, when we're recording this. so I think that we'll see movement on that. So so definitely if you you're a bidder that that is, you know, as as most of us are, looking at NHS trusts, local authorities, you know, those sorts of places, you'll probably see some change there to to keep in step with. And what's good about it as well is if you do have these eight asks, you can what I'm seeing
⁓ I've been bidding with some larger organisations where we've had to put in bids that have said, please explain how you will respond to points two and seven and what your plan is for it. And that means that as an organisation you can actually then create structures rather than just responding to asks in in individual tenders, you can actually create a bit more of a meaningful programme in that area and have a an answer to that and a plan for that ⁓ built into to your operations which is is really helpful.
Matt Light (45:17)
Amen.
Gemma Waring (45:21)
so I would say definitely keep an eye on that. That that will evolve over the next twelve months. And I think the other thing for me is the ⁓ I'll just have to try and remember the exact name of it, but is basically the public interest test as to whether something should go out to procurement at all. ⁓ so yeah, which is is is very interesting. again, I'd be trying not to be too cynical, but I th th th basically the
Matt Light (45:36)
Okay.
Gemma Waring (45:44)
The idea is that any contract valued of a million pounds or above, there should be an interest test done to see whether it should be outsourced, because they they they they're calling it a culture of outsourcing by default. So so, you know, authorities just outsource everything because it's what they're used to doing. Whereas what they're saying is anything a million pounds or above in contract value, they should actually decide whether they should be delivered in-house. the the cynical side of me is
Okay, so where all these people that are going to be able to deliver these things. ⁓ 'cause I know working with authorities, you know, their resourcing and their budgets and their recruitment ability is is limited ⁓ with the funds that they have available. But yeah, th th there's that bubbling up in the background as well, is like and and I know that there's been some quite just on the news this morning actually there was talk about the Southwest Water.
Matt Light (46:13)
Yeah.
Gemma Waring (46:34)
And they were talking about bringing that back under public control. There's been stuff around the railways to do with that. and again we're we're sort of under a a Labour government at the moment, where these things are more likely to happen. So I just wonder how far that will go in terms of an agenda and and a requirement and what impact that will have ⁓ on the stuff that is actually going out to market. And like everything, well, like like a lot of things in procurement, this seems to be counterproductive.
Matt Light (46:38)
Mm.
Gemma Waring (47:02)
you know, it's sort of saying we want more people involved in the supply chain, we want to support British businesses and and smaller businesses and then on the other hand we're looking at in sourcing more stuff. So yeah, be interesting to see how that one plays out as well, but something to keep an eye on as well.
Matt Light (47:18)
Definitely. And just to finally wrap up Jemma, what's your level of confidence around the future of public sector procurement? Have you still got any concerns with the direction that we're going or do you feel comfortable that, you know, despite some of the challenges in there,
We've got a bright future in terms of how suppliers and buyers are going to work within the Procurement Act going forward.
Gemma Waring (47:49)
In general, I think that it will get better. I just think it will take time. And and I think that if you think about the last le legislation, you know, with sort of ten years of working with that. and I would say arguably, I'm sure there'll be a lot of people that would argue the opposite, but I think that that did allow for a lot of progression. if you think about ten years ago, if you think about
what we look at now in procurement for, you know, ⁓ modern slavery, people paying their taxes properly, you know, targets for spending with SMEs, you know, the the there have been great changes, but it doesn't happen like a lightning bolt. It it takes time. So what I would love to see is maybe ⁓ maybe maybe if we get back on ten years time if we're both still
Matt Light (48:32)
Hahaha
Gemma Waring (48:32)
working
in bidding and procurement. But it would be nice to see, you know, in in the long term that things like the social value model and and maybe a a localized version of it have really took a hold. it would be great to see more buyers having more open commercial discussions with the supply base and see that positively impact the contracts that go to market and and how they're managed practically. So yeah, I I think that there are the bigger challenges that that are almost
I don't want to say impossible to fix completely, but a are are ongoing, like I said, the getting SMEs involved, ⁓ you know, making sure that people have got the right skills and and capacity and, you know, got the right resources to do what they need to do to manage the whole of the procurement exchange. they're sort of eternal, I think, they're evergreen challenges that we have to qu keep chipping away at, but in general I do think that it's moving to a better place.
Matt Light (49:27)
Amazing. A positive note to end on as well, Jenna. Thank you. Awesome. Before we completely wrap up, we like to end each of these podcasts with a little bit of rapid fire Q &A. Are you up for doing some of this?
Gemma Waring (49:30)
Yeah.
Yeah, let's go for it. I'll try and keep my answers concise. Everybody knows I talk too much.
Matt Light (49:48)
Fantastic. Okay, so first one. What's the most common question that you get asked by anybody about the Procurement Act?
Gemma Waring (49:58)
Usually it's usually competitive flexible procedure on what's allowed and what's not allowed.
Matt Light (50:05)
Fantastic. Send the answer to that. Well, you've heard it, but go back and listen to it again if you need to. What's been your biggest personal learning experience in what you've done with understanding the act over the past few years?
Gemma Waring (50:12)
Yeah.
I think speaking to a broader range of authorities. So my experience in the public sector was central government, local government, NHS, you know, housing associations. So I've been fortunate to be able to then work with like utilities companies that are acting as public sector buyers, you know, a defence sector as well. So it's been interesting to learn about their cultures because they are so so different.
And then that's helped me really understand those aspects of the act of why's this stuff come in and where's this come from and it is that knitting together of the all the disparate parts of it into one set of legislation that has opened the doors for everybody else.
Matt Light (51:08)
Fantastic. And last one, just if you can only share one piece of advice to bidders listening to strengthen their understanding of the act, what would it be?
Gemma Waring (51:26)
I would say look at your key customers, understand how they're planning to implement change and prepare for it. So they might be doing business as usual, running a restricted procedure and just calling it competitive flexible procedure and it's business as usual for you, but if you suddenly start getting hit with you know, negotiations and this, that and the other, this is your window of opportunity to to be ready.
to to manage those challenges when they come through.
Matt Light (51:55)
Amazing. Gemma, thank you so much for us to think about and really absorb there. think from my perspective, the key takeaways I've had there, we need to think about really how procurement are dealing with this from a bidding perspective and maybe be a bit more open to that.
Gemma Waring (51:57)
Thanks, Matt.
Matt Light (52:22)
Pre-market engagement and competitive flexible procedure, I feel like I understand so much better now. And particularly with the latter, certainly if I find any tenders on that in the future, I'm gonna know how to handle those. And yeah, some really great information there on what we can do to be.
prepping ourselves as big teams for the future of public sector procurement. So Gemma, really, really fantastic and appreciate your time. Look, if there's any more information that people want to get off of the back of this or they want to talk to you in any more detail, maybe consider some of your training in this area, where can they go to find you?
Gemma Waring (53:09)
the best place to find me is on LinkedIn. I think I'm fairly well connected. You'll probably find if you're listening to this podcast I'll be connected to a connection of yours. So if you just search for Gemma Wearing, I'm I'm on there. and you can always just reach out by email. It's nice and easy, it's just Gemma.wearing at outlook.com. and I will happily ⁓ reply to you if you've got any questions.
Matt Light (53:29)
Amazing. Gemma, again, thank you ever so much. Really, really appreciated this. And thank you everybody for listening. That's been the Optimised Podcast brought to you by Visible Thread. I look forward to you joining us again next time.
Gemma Waring (53:33)
Thanks.