In this episode we are at VisibleThreads VT Summit 2023. Tan and her guests, Rebecca Link and Marcia Watson dive into a riveting discussion on mastering workplace efficiency with tech, navigating generational diversity, and the art of empathetic, strength-focused leadership in today's dynamic business world.
In this episode we are at VisibleThreads VT Summit 2023. Tan and her guests, Rebecca Link and Marcia Watson, both Proposal Management professionals, dive into a riveting discussion on mastering workplace efficiency with tech, navigating generational diversity, and the art of empathetic, strength-focused leadership in today’s dynamic business world.
https://www.visiblethread.com/blog/the-optimize-podcast/
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Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCf07mAQMdH5IgEgJhyhpMoQ
www.visiblethread.com
00;00;00;00 - 00;00;31;11
Marcia Watson
In one of my earlier jobs, I had a leader say, If I get you another proposal manager, how many more proposals can you do? My answer was none. My answer was, I will do the ones I'm already doing even better.
00;00;31;14 - 00;01;03;04
Marcia Watson
Welcome, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us on our live Optimize podcast recording. We are closing out the Beat Summit 23 and I'm so excited to have two of my industry partners, cohorts, partners and crime here on the stage with me. And on this podcast we're going to talk about things that we've talked about already today. I'm going to close it up a little bit, and I know that I'm the only thing standing between you and the bar and buying the Bourbon Old-Fashioned.
00;01;03;06 - 00;01;26;12
Marcia Watson
So we're going to make it quick. We're going to do Rapid Fire, but we're to keep it interesting and light because that's just kind of how I roll, right? So we've talked a lot about technology, and I am not going to make this a focus. Sorry, Fergal, but Rebecca will do this for us, and I may have to cut her off, so I will go off script, but we do need a ton of touch on it, right?
00;01;26;12 - 00;01;52;17
Marcia Watson
So there are so many different things about technology. And when we have leaders, because you're all leaders within your organization, when you come to these summits or you come to these industry events, you hear so incredible, like new features and sexy things and tools and whistles and they're like, my God, if I go back and take this away, you know, organization, we can do this and we can do that.
00;01;52;19 - 00;02;18;15
Marcia Watson
It doesn't always happen like that, right? Like in a perfect world, everybody would be on the same page. But you've got different stakeholders who have maybe a different tool that they like or they are reticent about adopting a tool. You've got some old schoolers, okay, not to be ageless because you know, I'm up there too, but how do you bring back a technology like this to make sure that it's adopted at the enterprise level?
00;02;18;17 - 00;02;47;06
Tan Wilson
Yeah. So the last five years of my career before I jumped over into the tech world, I had been sought out from graduating businesses that had, you know, graduated from the small business space into a large business space to come and build out proposal centers and business development centers for them. And that's a pretty tall order. You walk into, you know, organizations that have cultures, and this is the way we've always done things and also have operated in a very different arena than the large business competitive space.
00;02;47;09 - 00;03;15;17
Tan Wilson
And so the best thing to do is, is to teach, right? I think there's a difference between going home or going back to your company and shoving information in people's faces or approaching things from a I hate the word aggressive, but, you know, like a very we have to do this kind of thing. But sharing information and teaching and training people about new ways to do things or different ways to do things.
00;03;15;19 - 00;03;35;29
Tan Wilson
And, you know, I think we've all worked with with leaders or managers here, sometimes that helps. It kind of becomes their idea. But that's a great way to do that, right, is to just kind of share information and be like, what do you what do you think about this? Because when I saw this, I thought some possibly oddities and capabilities for us.
00;03;36;02 - 00;03;46;23
Tan Wilson
So I think really putting together a kind of a comprehensive package of information and training your organization as an approach to change is a very safe and smart way.
00;03;46;25 - 00;04;04;14
Marcia Watson
Marcia, how do you overcome some of these challenges? Yeah, it's exactly that. I think it's, you know, working from the line, which a lot of us are, right, where the the day to day users, the end users of these products, we're the ones who are benefiting from the innovations and the efficiencies that come through them. The leaders are who's paying the bills.
00;04;04;16 - 00;04;31;05
Marcia Watson
And so definitely being able to demonstrate that there will be a return on investment of my time. Back to your business. My ability to do my job better, not just faster, which is obviously a goal, but with better quality, with better reinforcement from my leadership that this is something that's going to improve our practice overall. So it's not just the personal innate benefit that these tools provide, it is what they provide back to the organization.
00;04;31;07 - 00;04;50;27
Marcia Watson
But what you provide to the organization by being able to use that tool. So I think there's a little bit of self-advocacy there and being kind of that safety in numbers as you're here with your peers and you're here with your colleagues and and sharing those best practices amongst each other, when leadership hears that somebody else is doing it, they're going to want to do it, too.
00;04;51;00 - 00;05;09;17
Marcia Watson
So, you know, as you can advocate that, you can bring your spirit back to, you know, in the enthusiasm that comes behind these products, But then you have to stick to it. You have to incorporate it into your business practice, and then you have to demonstrate the value in the short term and the long term so that they'll continue to invest.
00;05;09;19 - 00;05;40;18
Marcia Watson
So there was a term used by one of the attendees here that I loved was being process agnostic, and I always use the term tool agnostic, right. And so it doesn't matter what process I'm trying to, you know, like improve or what's problem or, you know, solution I'm trying to provide. I looked at the process and what the problem is first, and then I decide, is there a tool to, you know, to use to kind of solve that, Like in this whole like we've thrown out a lot of different types of tools here today.
00;05;40;21 - 00;06;07;28
Marcia Watson
Visible thread is a tool grammarly like there's so many out there, how do you pick the right tool for the process or do you shape the process around the tool? I love that question. People process tools, right? Where technology, there's an order there, the people have to know what they're doing. The process has to be in place in order for the tool to fit into the process.
00;06;08;01 - 00;06;28;24
Marcia Watson
If you think you need a tool, but you don't know why you don't need a tool, you need a process. Once you figure out what step that is, then you find the tools that can help you make those steps be accomplished faster. That's that copilot philosophy, right? How can I use technology to make me better at my job, not to replace me from being able to do my job?
00;06;28;27 - 00;06;47;26
Marcia Watson
So the way I see it is, you know, your people need to understand kind of the gist. What do you need to get out of the process? They need to then develop that process before you can even consider what tool, because that tool might change what your process ends up being. Then then it becomes a cycle. And let's pull that thread.
00;06;47;28 - 00;06;50;09
Marcia Watson
I know you want to answer the question about one quick.
00;06;50;09 - 00;07;02;23
Tan Wilson
Thing to say. We play a game called Keep Kill Neat. Okay, now keep kill me. So if you have something that works, you keep it as something that doesn't work it, kill it. And then if you don't have something, then you figure out what that need is.
00;07;02;27 - 00;07;26;28
Marcia Watson
Yes, that's a great app. Like I I'm going you're not going to like, patent that one, right? Trademark. Okay. Just you get the good hashtags. So yeah, no, let's pull this thread a little bit and go into like the people element, right? Like a lot of times people think technology we've talked a lot about this today. Technology is going to take over my job.
00;07;27;00 - 00;07;55;10
Marcia Watson
I see it from a silver lining perspective. There's an endless amount of opportunities from as far as like different roles now within an organization that wasn't there before, like prompt engineers, like who knew, like, you know, last year there was no such thing as a prompt engineer. So for our industry, because there's so many professionals here and what new roles and new professions do you see coming out of all this great technology and advances that we're having?
00;07;55;12 - 00;08;20;29
Tan Wilson
Yeah, that prompt engineering is such a great, great example. Even my job. So I as I mentioned, I recently joined the tech industry I was in federal proposals are over 13 years now I work for a tech startup is is very different but it's very cool. And so my title is director of training, but I'm designing training around something that's never existed before.
00;08;21;01 - 00;08;42;12
Tan Wilson
And in a market that is new in a in a techno technological landscape that is new. So there's a ton of possibilities there. And I think there's a lot of opportunity for people in our industry. And I'm not telling you to quit your jobs tomorrow, but there are new doors opening and so if you're like me, you see a door open, a crack and you just kick it out and you run through it, right?
00;08;42;12 - 00;09;21;03
Tan Wilson
Curiosity kills me every time, but I stay. Stay aware of these things that are starting to change your landscape because they will open different avenues. So prompt engineering training just I think product awareness, you know, start, start to get immersed in. And it doesn't even have to be like in here I go talking about I already write, but it I know it doesn't have to be I either, you know, I think that there are really interesting things that we can explore just as proposal professionals to think outside of the box as well.
00;09;21;05 - 00;09;42;23
Tan Wilson
But I feel like prompt engineering that is going to be the big one because it goes back to what I was saying earlier about prompt, smart and garbage in, garbage out. It's all about how we are manipulating the data. We're inputting into these models. And unless you can do that with finesse and agility from an educated standpoint, you're not going to they're not going to produce what you're looking for.
00;09;42;25 - 00;10;11;27
Marcia Watson
Again, I've got to like move away from AI and technology and back to people, though. But you know, you've been involved at HP and Industry, you know, like for a while here. Where do you see the profession kind of growing? Because I think this is with a new technology, it's been really great for our industry and that now all of a sudden you can focus on less busy work and more on the quality aspects of it.
00;10;11;29 - 00;10;38;12
Marcia Watson
And so I think what's really great that's come out of this is we're now able to pay more attention and and focus more time on strategy and being like, you know, really good at what our discriminator is. And going back to really what wins contracts is to not only provide a compelling and compliant proposal, but one where you're showing and demonstrating value.
00;10;38;19 - 00;11;03;23
Marcia Watson
So talk to me a little bit about, you know, the elevating the profession on the you know, like we're more professional, We're not just busy work, you know, beekeeper people. Yeah, absolutely. And I think for a proposal person in general, you know, we all know what needs to happen in the proposal. And one of the speakers earlier today said I'm going to give my captur manager what I need in order for them to get me a winning proposal.
00;11;03;26 - 00;11;22;14
Marcia Watson
I will then create that winning proposal. That's always been my philosophy as well. We've got to work our way back. And so for us in the proposal industry to say I don't have to spend my time creating a startup compliance matrix, I can research the customer so or I can go back and read through the capture plan in a little bit greater detail.
00;11;22;19 - 00;11;51;22
Marcia Watson
I can start using my own industry expertise to make this product better, not just in a functionality of a proposal document from a document management perspective, but from a content management perspective and an intelligence management perspective. I think those who find their time being opened up are going to be able to research more, learn more about their own organization and their own organizational capabilities, and become more of a subject matter expert from within.
00;11;51;24 - 00;12;07;07
Marcia Watson
Because we're not heads down, click and clicking keyboards all day long. We're able to be more interactive with each other because the machines are doing what machines are built to do, and the human brain is going to be able to do what it was intended to do all along, bring the answers in.
00;12;07;09 - 00;12;34;28
Tan Wilson
And reinvest that time, reinvest that time back into yourselves, because we do have these capabilities that are going to further reduce the need for nights and weekends. And for us juggling multiple opportunities at a time, take the time to get certifications, do trainings, maybe learn something new and keep yourself well, because I feel like, especially in our industry, burnout is high.
00;12;34;28 - 00;12;58;10
Tan Wilson
We talk about all the time not going to say work life balance narcos, that the fallacy, it's proverbial carrot. We constantly chase and it's like that. But it's true. And not just, you know, in proposal industry, but American culture. The way that we work is very different from a European culture. We are taught early on to to drive work ourselves into the ground.
00;12;58;10 - 00;13;16;07
Tan Wilson
And if you are not pulling, you know, extra hours or whatever, or being the top seller performer, then you are not successful. And that's not true. We're all successful in our own way AS and it looks different for everyone. So with these capabilities and with this time, keep yourselves well. Thanks for coming to my TEDx talk.
00;13;16;13 - 00;13;45;04
Marcia Watson
Hundred percent Preach, Testify. I want to say work life balance is more of a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you put it in, you'll you're going to suffer. Right? So when Anatoly was speaking earlier and she said, we saved 70 hours of of human labor by running invisible thread. So for your team, for those 70 hours, did you then give them 70 hours more worth of work to do or did they get to go pick up their kids from practice this afternoon because they had time to do that?
00;13;45;06 - 00;14;07;02
Marcia Watson
You know, for us being and I think it's a generational thing. I think, you know gen be what it is. You know, we were driven, we were independent, we were latchkey kids. We're not going to deny that. We know what we need to do in order to get through our lives. And we're just not going to stop. So if the tool is giving us our time back, we owe it to ourselves to take that time.
00;14;07;09 - 00;14;26;20
Marcia Watson
Speak with your leadership. You brought me a tool. It gave me more time. Does that mean I can do more proposals? No, it does not. We had in one of my earlier jobs, I had a leader say, if I get you another proposal manager, how many more proposals can you do? My answer was none. My answer was, I will do the ones I'm already doing even better.
00;14;26;26 - 00;14;53;06
Marcia Watson
Yeah. If you're not using that time that you would get back to make your product better, you're just making more products. Not any better. I've already lost control of my own podcast last year. I am really regretting my life decisions here today. So can I swap you out with Fergal or something? I don't know. At least I can control a man.
00;14;53;06 - 00;15;22;07
Marcia Watson
Maybe a little bit better. This is what happens when you put three Alphas who are Gen Xers on the set. But okay, so let's pool the whole, like, work life balance. I said it. Me? Yes. Work life balance. It is a fallacy, right? And it's something that we we teach. We teach early, you know, our kids and especially like women who are coming up and I know maybe ages are sexist or, you know, whatever, but I've been known to go there.
00;15;22;09 - 00;15;43;05
Marcia Watson
But yeah, we do have this fallacy that if you all of a sudden, you know, infuse all these efficiencies, like you said, you're going to like, do more, but like, do less, do what you're doing, but do it well and do it better. Right. How do you with all these new technologies and all the challenges that we're facing?
00;15;43;05 - 00;16;11;05
Marcia Watson
Right. We've got an increasing workload. We've got this new technology that we're supposed to be integrating and understanding. And now we've got these new generation growing up who works differently, right? Like I love I'm so intrigued by people and how they're similar to what their generation stereotypes are, Right? I'm a Gen Xer, look it up. There's many, many Facebook pages about, you know, how like we're we're lucky to still be alive.
00;16;11;07 - 00;16;34;04
Marcia Watson
But how do you manage millennials? How do you manage the Gen Z? Others like, you know, like how do you manage different groups of people who have different technology backgrounds. They operate very differently. Like if anything with COVID has kind of taught us is that some of us were not meant to work virtually. Like some of us were not meant like to work in a virtual environment.
00;16;34;09 - 00;16;49;29
Marcia Watson
They need that creativity, they need that organic feedback, they need that connection. So how do we kind of embrace this brave new world that we have with all the challenges and still be successful?
00;16;50;01 - 00;17;18;13
Tan Wilson
Take the technology out of it, all right? And it's how I am letting letting that fly. People. People are very people. My title title is my future keynote. It's out now. People are very people. And if you've ever heard me present before, I've done a lot of presentations about leadership and you can always count on that. But I could I could get a call right now that my son fell and broke his wrist and it would drastically change the way I am showing up in front of you.
00;17;18;16 - 00;17;41;02
Tan Wilson
And so there is a constant variable. The technology, the processes take all of that out and focus on the people. Right. And embrace how someone is showing up, even if it's wildly different than the way you are, the way you communicate. And that goes for leadership to right. You may report to someone who is just a little different than you are, has different communication styles.
00;17;41;04 - 00;18;01;27
Tan Wilson
But to to the point, I think it really does boil down to leadership and acknowledging differences and then also realizing that we are kind of, regardless of what your generation is or your personality style or anything like that, we now we're apparently alphas up here now. Thanks for that. You know, that that we're all kind of in the same boat, though.
00;18;01;27 - 00;18;23;27
Tan Wilson
Still. We're all we're all floating in the same boat and with, you know, expectations, tools and things that are happening with us and around us. And I think when we remember that and the other key word, too, is empathy. And that's not unfortunately, I did a poll, I guess I think it was last year about whether empathy can be taught or not.
00;18;23;27 - 00;18;45;06
Tan Wilson
And it was very interesting. Mixed results. What you find that out to late, don't you? But what do you guys think? Raise your hand if you think empathy can be taught. interesting. Can you teach true empathy?
00;18;45;09 - 00;18;47;14
Marcia Watson
It can be mimicked what?
00;18;47;16 - 00;19;17;26
Tan Wilson
You can model it. I agree. Mimic, unfortunately. And this is my not so professional opinion. I think true empathy because of the human condition is more most often learned through significant trauma. That's unfortunate human condition. Speaking from some of his attracts have lots of trauma. But it is it's interesting. Sometimes we have to be smacked in the face real hard before we're able to acknowledge another point of view.
00;19;17;26 - 00;19;38;21
Tan Wilson
And it's unfortunate. So can you teach it? But you can certainly model it and at least be aware that we are all walking a very different path. But we come together on lots of things in lots of ways and tools and technology is certainly one of them and we're going to approach those differently as people too. So being open minded.
00;19;38;24 - 00;19;57;05
Marcia Watson
Yeah, absolutely. And I think too with people, it's played to the skill train, to the weakness. And so, you know, I've managed several teams over the years and folks come and go and it's always, you know, somebody's struggling. You might want to consider getting rid of them. You might need them. They're probably going to need to be replaced.
00;19;57;08 - 00;20;18;19
Marcia Watson
No specific examples, but to say, let me try to fix them first, maybe they don't know. Maybe we've given something that we did not give them time to learn. We did not give them time to adapt or adjust. Or maybe they just haven't figured it out yet. Maybe they haven't different. Exactly. Maybe they have a different learning style or a health issue or something that they need to get through personally.
00;20;18;25 - 00;20;43;04
Marcia Watson
And as a manager, you can have those conversations one on one without getting H.R. involved, but you can also look at that individual, you know, as a leader, what is their learning style? Would they do better with a mentor? Would they do better with, you know, take some PTO and just dial it back a minute? You know, how do you get to the best of what that person has to offer on that day at that time?
00;20;43;10 - 00;21;02;13
Marcia Watson
If it becomes consistent or you try to fix them, they revert back. Then, you know, you've got a people issue, but probably you've got an attentiveness issue, a, you know, distraction issue or something that is short term, temporary and can be resolved and fixed if you don't try to fix the problem first, you're not going to solve the problem.
00;21;02;13 - 00;21;22;07
Marcia Watson
You're not going to know what to do when the next person has that same issue. my gosh, we could sit and talk about this thread like forever. But I think this is a really good point for us to kind of close up a little bit in that I, I view these challenges a little differently. Instead of trying to fix someone, look at their strengths.
00;21;22;13 - 00;21;44;00
Marcia Watson
And so for those of you who are following me on LinkedIn, I'm going through a whole series right now where I talk about my five Clifton strengths. And so if those of you who are not familiar with Clifton strengths, I highly recommend it's run by the Gallup industry to go take it. You get 34, you know like whatever like I'm they should pay me at this point Clifton strengths by Gallup.
00;21;44;02 - 00;22;19;13
Marcia Watson
And so learning people's strengths I think is really kind of key because you want them to be successful right. I don't think there's a manager out here who doesn't want their person to be, you know, happy, successful, productive. And I and most people do inherently want to be a productive, useful, effective. And so instead of trying to fix them or like, this is wrong to mold you, this a one size fits all type of approach is why not look at their uniqueness and kind of embrace that and rethink though?
00;22;19;13 - 00;22;43;08
Marcia Watson
Do you have the right person in the right spot? Because just because they're there, because they've inherited that position or they drew the short stick and they got stuck there, that doesn't mean that they should be there and that that's the best use for, you know, their their strengths. And so I highly recommend that. And then when you map out your organization, you'll find how interesting, you know, some of the stereotypes are, you know, for that.
00;22;43;08 - 00;23;06;09
Marcia Watson
So but in any case, thank you so much for for joining me here. I really hope that everyone found this useful. I think our podcast is going to be touching on a couple of different things just to put a plug in for the next couple series. We the first one that was out was passing the baton talking about how do you make the transition from business development to capture to proposals.
00;23;06;12 - 00;23;39;06
Marcia Watson
Riveting conversation with two other incredible like alpha women to that is out and then the second podcast that we currently have is two MVP moms where I speak to a colleague of mine who has five children. They're all in sports. She runs her own business and she's starting a nonprofit organization to. So the story is unbelievable. We talk about entrepreneurship and the challenges of being a mom and like life gets in the way, but you still have what you want to contribute.
00;23;39;08 - 00;23;59;01
Marcia Watson
Upcoming podcasts. Fergal You're going to get in the hot seat, you know, we're going to talk. Yeah, we're going to get all geeky about that. There's also another one on air and cyber. You can't talk about it without cyber. We're going to scare you a little bit, run and give you some really cool tidbits on that and there there's so many other topics.
00;23;59;01 - 00;24;16;12
Marcia Watson
So if there's anything that you want to hear about that we haven't talked about because this is meant to be a podcast that reflects industry and all the topics that we're interested in because we are more than just proposal capture ready people. So thank you so much for joining. And I'm going to hand this over and the podcast.